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Old 08-12-2017, 11:02 AM   #151
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Default Re: Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

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He hasn't. He works for the tone of the show but he plays the part more like Peter Parker than Barry Allen. People love his Flash cuz they love the show and like i said, his portrayal just works for the show.
Regardless of how he plays the part and in what context, the reality is he has set a bar for a portrayal of the character. There are gonna be comparisons, like it or not. Same thing happened with Routh being compared to Welling when Smallville was still on the air.

I'm not saying Miller can't shine with his own version of the character, but that the inevitable challenge of comparison is something he'll face. Its not unique to Miller since it happens whenever any new actor takes on a legacy role. Still, its a challenge.

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Old 08-12-2017, 11:54 AM   #152
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Regardless of how he plays the part and in what context, the reality is he has set a bar for a portrayal of the character. There are gonna be comparisons, like it or not. Same thing happened with Routh being compared to Welling when Smallville was still on the air.

I'm not saying Miller can't shine with his own version of the character, but that the inevitable challenge of comparison is something he'll face. Its not unique to Miller since it happens whenever any new actor takes on a legacy role. Still, its a challenge.
Must be a bar only short people can see then. hahahaha! Jus Playin. I get what you mean but I don't think anyone really thinks Grant set any kind of solid standard for the character.

I remember people comparing Routh to Reeves, Not Welling.
Since Ezra has been announced playing the character, I've seen more acceptance and support for him than bashing. It seems like most trust in Ezra's acting ability and he also had a pretty solid fan base before being cast.
Fans know they're not playing the same Flash so I just think the only people who are gonna compare the 2, Are Only the ones who see Grant as competition.

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Old 08-12-2017, 01:19 PM   #153
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Default Re: Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

It should be the Trinity. Superman being the vocal, inspirational speech type leader, Batman being the field/tactical general and Wonder Woman being the glue/heart/team bonding character.

As for the Flash thing, don't really care for the TV Show much but I prefer Grant Gustin in the role at this point but we've only seen trailers so far. Not that I'm trying to claim that Grant is some high standard or a definitive version of Barry, just like him better than Ezra so far. Ezra's snippets in the footage so far have been annoying comedic relief. He's been massively disappointing for me so far.

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Old 08-12-2017, 01:30 PM   #154
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Default Re: Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

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It should be the Trinity. Superman being the vocal, inspirational speech type leader, Batman being the field/tactical general and Wonder Woman being the glue/heart/team bonding character.
WW and Supes switched places.

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Old 08-12-2017, 02:26 PM   #155
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Default Re: Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

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It should be the Trinity. Superman being the vocal, inspirational speech type leader, Batman being the field/tactical general and Wonder Woman being the glue/heart/team bonding character.

As for the Flash thing, don't really care for the TV Show much but I prefer Grant Gustin in the role at this point but we've only seen trailers so far. Not that I'm trying to claim that Grant is some high standard or a definitive version of Barry, just like him better than Ezra so far. Ezra's snippets in the footage so far have been annoying comedic relief. He's been massively disappointing for me so far.
Superman doesn't exactly say much in these films. He's more of the strong, silent type and a rather furtive and remote figure. He doesn't really seem like the vocal, inspirational speech-type leader at all here. He's not really much of the glue/heart/ team bonding character either.

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WW and Supes switched places.
Wonder Woman fulfils both of those roles so far. She just took both places.

I think Superman will just have to be the muscle unfortunately.

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Old 08-12-2017, 02:30 PM   #156
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Superman doesn't exactly say much in these films. He's more of the strong, silent type and a rather furtive and remote figure. He doesn't really seem like the vocal, inspirational speech-type leader at all here. He's not really much of the glue/heart/ team bonding character either.



Wonder Woman fulfils both of those roles so far. She just took both places.

I think Superman will just have to be the muscle unfortunately.
I agree, I didn't say that's what we were getting, I said I think that's what we should get. We'll see if they develop those traits for the characters down the road. I'm not as down on this version of Superman as most, in fact I very much like most of it, but I would agree that he's needed more of a voice, more dialogue and screen time.

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Old 08-12-2017, 04:14 PM   #157
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Default Re: Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

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I agree, I didn't say that's what we were getting, I said I think that's what we should get. We'll see if they develop those traits for the characters down the road. I'm not as down on this version of Superman as most, in fact I very much like most of it, but I would agree that he's needed more of a voice, more dialogue and screen time.
And more positivity. That was especially lacking in BVS. I can't remember what he was like in MOS.

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Old 08-13-2017, 04:54 AM   #158
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Default Re: Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

He was more unsure in MOS. You got the sense that he was trying to figure out what to do. Now you could probably still complain that we didn't get into his head enough in MOS (I agree with that to an extent), but it's also more forgivable there imo because he's just starting out. And the ending of MOS definitely implies "ok, now he's going to be the Superman that people want to see."

And the BVS ignores that and doubles down on the misery. It's far less forgivable there for me.

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Old 08-14-2017, 07:29 PM   #159
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Default Re: Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

He went from "Happy to be here, Lois" with a nice big smile to "No one stays good in this world".

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Old 08-14-2017, 07:56 PM   #160
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Default Re: Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

Well, I think it's possibly too late for this Superman now. The damage is already done with the general audience. They think of him as a sad sack. And it doesn't help that there's Sad Affleck too. Who wants to watch these two grumpy old men?

That's why Wonder Woman with her more positive outlook and charm is going to be far more popular. Do people want to hang out with a bunch of dour characters who are generally down on life, or someone who has a zest for life and makes you smile and lights up the screen whenever she's around?

WW is likely to end up by default the lead character in the DCEU. I don't think it's just a question of "should she be" anymore.

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Old 08-14-2017, 11:51 PM   #161
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Default Re: Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

Though I don't see Superman as grumpy at all, I absolutely agree with everything else you said.

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Old 08-15-2017, 01:35 AM   #162
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Default Re: Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

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Though I don't see Superman as grumpy at all, I absolutely agree with everything else you said.
The grumpy was a reference to the movie Grumpy Old Men. Obviously they're not old either. But Superman is nowhere near the charming character he was when played by Christopher Reeve.

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Old 08-15-2017, 03:20 AM   #163
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Default Re: Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

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Well, I think it's possibly too late for this Superman now. The damage is already done with the general audience. They think of him as a sad sack. And it doesn't help that there's Sad Affleck too. Who wants to watch these two grumpy old men?

That's why Wonder Woman with her more positive outlook and charm is going to be far more popular. Do people want to hang out with a bunch of dour characters who are generally down on life, or someone who has a zest for life and makes you smile and lights up the screen whenever she's around?

WW is likely to end up by default the lead character in the DCEU. I don't think it's just a question of "should she be" anymore.
You say this like Batman isn't still the most popular DC hero, last I checked he wasn't known for being upbeat and positive even in his other movies. Like i've said before if you drop the controversial aspects of DCEU Batman (super violent and killing) and Superman (being more hopeful and less dour) their popularity will spike big time and a lot of people would be cool with them being the leads. Not that Wonder Woman can't or shouldn't, I'm just saying.

And who's to say Aquaman, Flash or even Cyborg can't catch on in a major way after JL? Tbh Aquaman and Flash were praised more than Wonder Woman or even Batman were in discussions about the JL trailers from what I've seen. What if people want one of them to be the lead character of the DCEU. The lead doesn't automatically have to be one of the Trinity you know.

Plus I still think Harley is more popular than Wonder Woman, she was the main reason a film with horrible reviews and no Chinese release made $745M ww. I don't know if Wonder Woman has the popularity to power a movie to those #'s under those conditions. Why couldn't she be the lead?

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Old 08-15-2017, 06:37 AM   #164
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Plus I still think Harley is more popular than Wonder Woman, she was the main reason a film with horrible reviews and no Chinese release made $745M ww. I don't know if Wonder Woman has the popularity to power a movie to those #'s under those conditions. Why couldn't she be the lead?
Overseas it was Will Smith that was the big draw for Suicide Squad. He is very popular with the overseas audience. So if they were just going by popularity for the overseas market, then Deadshot would be the leader.

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Old 08-15-2017, 06:27 PM   #165
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The grumpy was a reference to the movie Grumpy Old Men. Obviously they're not old either. But Superman is nowhere near the charming character he was when played by Christopher Reeve.
Well I constantly say how Affleck looks like a grumpy cat in his catman costume so I'm in full agreement there about him being old and grumpy. hahaha!

but yes, Henry is definitely devoid of the charm that Reeves had but he also doesn't play the part like a clumsy court jester. However, this is one of the things that sold Kal-El's disguise better.
Hopefully they find away to balance the 2, eventually.

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Old 08-16-2017, 12:56 AM   #166
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Default Re: Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

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Well I constantly say how Affleck looks like a grumpy cat in his catman costume so I'm in full agreement there about him being old and grumpy. hahaha!

but yes, Henry is definitely devoid of the charm that Reeves had but he also doesn't play the part like a clumsy court jester. However, this is one of the things that sold Kal-El's disguise better.
Hopefully they find away to balance the 2, eventually.
I always thought Clark playing a "straight man", just a humorless, straight forward kinda guy worked well. Again, I go back to the Clark Kent in S:TAS. Perfect, not a clumsy klutz, a little dim perhaps, kind of a square, but not a dork. I like that version of Clark best.

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Old 08-16-2017, 03:24 AM   #167
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I always thought Clark playing a "straight man", just a humorless, straight forward kinda guy worked well. Again, I go back to the Clark Kent in S:TAS. Perfect, not a clumsy klutz, a little dim perhaps, kind of a square, but not a dork. I like that version of Clark best.
I actually think it works very well the way Henry plays it too. I think it keeps him underneath the radar better if he can blend in unnoticed completely cuz he appears so average.
However, alot of the charm from Reeves performance came from being a klutz as well but it also made it appear so unlikely that he could be Superman to the people who knew Clark and I can understand why fans want that back.

I personally don't but like I said, hopefully they can find a nice balance if DC does try to attempt this since they're apparently going with a "lighter" direction.

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Old 08-16-2017, 07:39 AM   #168
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I think movie audiences want to be entertained and to escape for a couple of hours. If a hero is too depressing and grim, it's like going to spend time with a friend who just complains all the time, and it brings you down too and makes you feel worse off when you leave. Why would people want to spend time with someone like that?

In the MCU, the characters who seem to click with the audiences the most are the more funs ones, like Tony Stark compared to say, Bruce Banner. Mark Ruffalo has gone some way to making his Banner a bit more lighthearted. But the previous portrayals by Eric Bana or even Ed Norton were much more downhearted and downbeat, especially Bana. He was moping around and was not a fun character at all.

When I rewatched episodes of the 70s Incredible Hulk character a few years ago, I couldn't even get through the entire series, because it was so depressing, and David Banner often seemed in such a state of despair and lacking hope. After watching that for a while, I would start feeling the same way about life. It's not something I would want to feel constantly when watching something.

So far, Superman in the DCEU has been far more downbeat and not really someone audiences would want to hang around with.

Wonder Woman, by comparison, is immediately charming and optimistic. Her charm and enthusiasm is infectious and you can't help but like her and everything she does, and that makes you want to see more of her. She's like someone who is full of joy in real life who could lift the atmosphere in a room when everyone is down. So of course she would click far more with audiences. Everyone likes someone like that, as we even see in real life.

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Old 08-16-2017, 12:38 PM   #169
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Default Re: Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

Who got the idea we wanted to see a sad, mopey Superman anyway? Superman Returns flopped and WB learned absolutely nothing from that.

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Old 08-16-2017, 03:15 PM   #170
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I think movie audiences want to be entertained and to escape for a couple of hours. If a hero is too depressing and grim, it's like going to spend time with a friend who just complains all the time, and it brings you down too and makes you feel worse off when you leave. Why would people want to spend time with someone like that?

In the MCU, the characters who seem to click with the audiences the most are the more funs ones, like Tony Stark compared to say, Bruce Banner. Mark Ruffalo has gone some way to making his Banner a bit more lighthearted. But the previous portrayals by Eric Bana or even Ed Norton were much more downhearted and downbeat, especially Bana. He was moping around and was not a fun character at all.

When I rewatched episodes of the 70s Incredible Hulk character a few years ago, I couldn't even get through the entire series, because it was so depressing, and David Banner often seemed in such a state of despair and lacking hope. After watching that for a while, I would start feeling the same way about life. It's not something I would want to feel constantly when watching something.

So far, Superman in the DCEU has been far more downbeat and not really someone audiences would want to hang around with.

Wonder Woman, by comparison, is immediately charming and optimistic. Her charm and enthusiasm is infectious and you can't help but like her and everything she does, and that makes you want to see more of her. She's like someone who is full of joy in real life who could lift the atmosphere in a room when everyone is down. So of course she would click far more with audiences. Everyone likes someone like that, as we even see in real life.
See, MoS gave me a sense of hope. I think that if a person really feels these movies are that depressing than that says more about the individual than the film.
I feel these movies are pretty sombre in tone, theres no denying that but they are also more thought-provoking than most Superhero movies. And I love the action in these films. That's where I find entertainment and interest in these films.
If I want shut off my brain entertainment, I watch Transformers.
MCU produces fun characters but most of the films are also insanely bland and mediocre. They're equivalent to a plain piece of white bread.

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Old 08-17-2017, 02:57 AM   #171
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Default Re: Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

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I think movie audiences want to be entertained and to escape for a couple of hours. If a hero is too depressing and grim, it's like going to spend time with a friend who just complains all the time, and it brings you down too and makes you feel worse off when you leave. Why would people want to spend time with someone like that?

In the MCU, the characters who seem to click with the audiences the most are the more funs ones, like Tony Stark compared to say, Bruce Banner. Mark Ruffalo has gone some way to making his Banner a bit more lighthearted. But the previous portrayals by Eric Bana or even Ed Norton were much more downhearted and downbeat, especially Bana. He was moping around and was not a fun character at all.

When I rewatched episodes of the 70s Incredible Hulk character a few years ago, I couldn't even get through the entire series, because it was so depressing, and David Banner often seemed in such a state of despair and lacking hope. After watching that for a while, I would start feeling the same way about life. It's not something I would want to feel constantly when watching something.

So far, Superman in the DCEU has been far more downbeat and not really someone audiences would want to hang around with.

Wonder Woman, by comparison, is immediately charming and optimistic. Her charm and enthusiasm is infectious and you can't help but like her and everything she does, and that makes you want to see more of her. She's like someone who is full of joy in real life who could lift the atmosphere in a room when everyone is down. So of course she would click far more with audiences. Everyone likes someone like that, as we even see in real life.
Yet again you're ignoring that Batman is the most popular DC character and he isn't an upbeat overly optimistic person at all. So no audiences don't need a character to be like that to like them. If that was the case MOS wouldn't have done better than IM3 on DVD/Blu ray and wouldn't have had a better domestic multiplier than IM3, AoU and Civil War. A movie like Logan wouldn't have done the great #'s it did despite being R rated. Audiences are capable of liking all types of characters dark and light as long as they find them compelling.

And I wouldn't really call DCEU Wonder Woman a "fun" character tbh, Steve and his men were far more humorous and entertaining than her. She isn't a jokey character like Iron Man, Deadpool, Spider-Man or Harley Quinn. Flash and Aquaman so far seem like much more fun characters who people would want to hang out with. She may be optimistic and hopeful but she's not really your typical fun life of the party type of person either.

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Old 08-18-2017, 03:11 PM   #172
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Default Re: Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

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Who got the idea we wanted to see a sad, mopey Superman anyway? Superman Returns flopped and WB learned absolutely nothing from that.
Agreed.

Some people insist that it flopped because audiences weren't interested in revisiting Richard Donner's version of Superman but I believe those people are wrong. The reason Superman Returns flopped is because it was a dull, boring movie starring a dull, boring Superman.

The only thing Superman Returns has in common with Superman The Movie is the opening credits and the John Williams musical score. Nothing else. It lacked the heart, spirit and joy of the Donner movies.

Most of all it lacked a Superman.

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Old 08-18-2017, 07:56 PM   #173
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Yet again you're ignoring that Batman is the most popular DC character and he isn't an upbeat overly optimistic person at all. So no audiences don't need a character to be like that to like them. If that was the case MOS wouldn't have done better than IM3 on DVD/Blu ray and wouldn't have had a better domestic multiplier than IM3, AoU and Civil War. A movie like Logan wouldn't have done the great #'s it did despite being R rated. Audiences are capable of liking all types of characters dark and light as long as they find them compelling.

And I wouldn't really call DCEU Wonder Woman a "fun" character tbh, Steve and his men were far more humorous and entertaining than her. She isn't a jokey character like Iron Man, Deadpool, Spider-Man or Harley Quinn. Flash and Aquaman so far seem like much more fun characters who people would want to hang out with. She may be optimistic and hopeful but she's not really your typical fun life of the party type of person either.
The deal with Wonder Woman is she tries to uplift the other characters. Such as when Charlie wanted to quit and she told him then who would sing for us? Or when Etta was listing her duties as a secretary
and Wonder Woman said where she came from they call those people slaves. This is what Superman should be doing. Saying things to encourage people, giving them inspiration, letting people know that they matter.

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Old 08-19-2017, 12:38 AM   #174
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The deal with Wonder Woman is she tries to uplift the other characters. Such as when Charlie wanted to quit and she told him then who would sing for us? Or when Etta was listing her duties as a secretary
and Wonder Woman said where she came from they call those people slaves. This is what Superman should be doing. Saying things to encourage people, giving them inspiration, letting people know that they matter.
I know I said she was an optimistic hopeful person she's just not a very "fun" character, certainly not in the way Flash and Aquaman are. So if we're looking for our lead characters to be fun like Marvel characters are, Aquaman, Flash and Harley would be more fitting than Diana.

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Old 08-19-2017, 12:55 AM   #175
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I know I said she was an optimistic hopeful person she's just not a very "fun" character, certainly not in the way Flash and Aquaman are. So if we're looking for our lead characters to be fun like Marvel characters are, Aquaman, Flash and Harley would be more fitting than Diana.
This is why WW works as the lead more so than Batman or this current version of Superman. She isn't a tortured soul trying to find herself, and she isn't a disillusioned and jaded hero wondering where it all went wrong. She takes on the proper tone for a hero at all times. I never get tired of saying it, people go to blockbuster superhero movies to cheer for the hero, not feel sorry for the hero. This is where Marvel gets it and why their movies are beloved.

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