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Old 08-12-2017, 09:45 PM   #76
TheComicbookKid
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Default Re: HBO orders alternate universe Civil War drama from David Benioff & Dan Weiss

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A piece of art is a piece of art. This will definitely cause a lot of heat, but don't cancel it because it'll be too dangerous being blamed for inciting incidents. It's not the way to handle the problem. Cancelling art is the easy solution to a much bigger problem that isn't being addressed. Charlottsville and what's happening is the main issue, not stuff like this. Holding this stuff back contributes to the explosiveness. You can't sweep things under the rug because sooner or later, it'll get worse. It's where art can help.
In this particular case with this symbol of the Confederacy. This kind of divorcing the symbol from the ramifications of it is why we are we're we are.

Could you imagine a football team using the Nazi symbol as its team flag? Like Ole' Miss did. The Confederacy has been divorced from the symbol for a long time now. Justified as art or just for fun.

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Old 08-13-2017, 04:01 PM   #77
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Default Re: HBO orders alternate universe Civil War drama from David Benioff & Dan Weiss

I don't see how a show like this would treat it as something fun or that this show won't tackle these hard things. Because they're hard and sensitive doesn't mean it's automatically wrong and that we shouldn't make it. This idea is perfect to confront these issues. I think that an idea like this can underline the ongoing problems of today and putting it in a dystopian world can help. Part of art is a confrontation of real world problems, not just escapism. Yeah, it's tough stuff. But that's where art can help us deal with it. We need this type of stuff, or else it's seen as negative when there's too little of it.

If it's executed right. And it can be. My problem is how we're condemning this before it's even been written. People are acting like it's already out. It's dangerous to do that. It's bible thumping tactics.

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If this was directed at me, I don't come here just to bad mouth the movie, I come here to discuss any new and relevant news. The new and relevant news just so happened to be ****.

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Old 08-13-2017, 09:51 PM   #78
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Default Re: HBO orders alternate universe Civil War drama from David Benioff & Dan Weiss

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I don't see how a show like this would treat it as something fun or that this show won't tackle these hard things. Because they're hard and sensitive doesn't mean it's automatically wrong and that we shouldn't make it. This idea is perfect to confront these issues. I think that an idea like this can underline the ongoing problems of today and putting it in a dystopian world can help. Part of art is a confrontation of real world problems, not just escapism. Yeah, it's tough stuff. But that's where art can help us deal with it. We need this type of stuff, or else it's seen as negative when there's too little of it.

If it's executed right. And it can be. My problem is how we're condemning this before it's even been written. People are acting like it's already out. It's dangerous to do that. It's bible thumping tactics.
In sure there's a way to deal with this subject.

But the main part of this project being an alternate reality is a problem. It basically tells that this doesn't matter. The 150 years of real world events in between don't matter.

The same reason we watch "dark" versions of our favorite characters or series and never worry about what we see cause it doesn't matter to our character. For an ideology that is already removed from reality cause defenders act like it was about vague states rights and not slavery.

A series were a Neo-Confederacy forms on issues we are actually dealing with today like immigration would have been way better imo.

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Old 08-13-2017, 10:01 PM   #79
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Default Re: HBO orders alternate universe Civil War drama from David Benioff & Dan Weiss

It's basically an Elseworlds or What If but.....with slavery. It's not some comic book fictional alt history, they're ****ing around with real world issues. I know Man in the High Castle did the same but slavery is an insanely hotter button topic nowadays than the Holocaust. It just is.

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Old 08-14-2017, 12:25 PM   #80
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Default Re: HBO orders alternate universe Civil War drama from David Benioff & Dan Weiss

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Except we are talking about the pair who gave us sexposition. I don't trust the pair to make a show that isn't just going to try to be as shocking as possible. Which is not needed.
Sexposition was put in the contract by HBO. Literally.

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Old 08-14-2017, 12:27 PM   #81
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Default Re: HBO orders alternate universe Civil War drama from David Benioff & Dan Weiss

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It's basically an Elseworlds or What If but.....with slavery. It's not some comic book fictional alt history, they're ****ing around with real world issues. I know Man in the High Castle did the same but slavery is an insanely hotter button topic nowadays than the Holocaust. It just is.
And what is wrong with a hot button issue being the basis for the show? Also considering the return of Nazis in full force this weekend... well yeah.

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Old 08-14-2017, 02:09 PM   #82
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Default Re: HBO orders alternate universe Civil War drama from David Benioff & Dan Weiss

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In sure there's a way to deal with this subject.

But the main part of this project being an alternate reality is a problem. It basically tells that this doesn't matter. The 150 years of real world events in between don't matter.

The same reason we watch "dark" versions of our favorite characters or series and never worry about what we see cause it doesn't matter to our character. For an ideology that is already removed from reality cause defenders act like it was about vague states rights and not slavery.

A series were a Neo-Confederacy forms on issues we are actually dealing with today like immigration would have been way better imo.
But that's not the story the writers want to tell. Your post is essentially "they should have told a story about a second confederacy rising in response to illegal immigration." That is an entirely distinct story from "Civil War ends in stalemate, both Union and Confederacy continues to exist into modern times." I mean, is it really a fair criticism of an original show to say "well the writers should've made this entirely separate concept instead?" Its essentially criticizing a TV show by saying "I want to watch something else" with no regard for the actual merit of the show.

Also, you are being dramatic. How does an alternate history story make the events between the Civil War and present "not matter?"


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Old 08-14-2017, 08:21 PM   #83
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Default Re: HBO orders alternate universe Civil War drama from David Benioff & Dan Weiss

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But that's not the story the writers want to tell. Your post is essentially "they should have told a story about a second confederacy rising in response to illegal immigration." That is an entirely distinct story from "Civil War ends in stalemate, both Union and Confederacy continues to exist into modern times." I mean, is it really a fair criticism of an original show to say "well the writers should've made this entirely separate concept instead?" Its essentially criticizing a TV show by saying "I want to watch something else" with no regard for the actual merit of the show.
I was just throwing out an idea of other ways to address the Confederacy. If you're going to mischaracterize my words, then read all my post and not just the last one you saw. I said I a support the idea, just not at this time.

And I laid out specifically in previous post why the way the Confederacy, in particular vs. Nazism, is already given an alternative history is why I'm afraid that further mischaracterizing it is working against them.

It's all fiction. The Crown isn't the word for word account of the Queen's trials and tribulations. It's asking us to accept this is a possibility of how things went down behind closed doors. The Confederacy can be handled in many ways. That's why artist don't just do the first idea that comes to mind. You try all kinds of ways.

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Also, you are being dramatic. How does an alternate history story make the events between the Civil War and present "not matter?"
Are you purposefully being obtuse on a sci-fi nerd board?

The whole point of alternate realities that changing an event, (Star Trek, Red Son, etc) is you change one event and the context of everything you know doesn't matter. Lois is your enemy. Kirk isn't the man who signs up for Star Fleet because of his father. Superman is a killer. The viewer is subject to whatever whim the creator decides events turn out. No matter if the creators actually understands all sides of the historical event and its ramifications or not.

MLK can now die in slavery or never be born to fight Jim Crow since the laws wouldn't be necessary since slavery never ended. Nothing we know of our real world history matters. WWII didn't happen the way we know. It's whatever they decide it is. Cold War, Reagan, Iran, Nazi defeat, Industrial Revolution in America is all different. All new events happened big and small. Nixon never went to China. China stays walled off. The Berlin Wall, Israel, UN, WWI, assassination of Ferdinand, atomic bomb, NASA, Neal Armstrong,......you pick.

It was the American Century. All 50 states together. Not 30 Union without 20 Confederate or however they decide the map falls now.

Nothing we know in those 150 years matters.

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Old Yesterday, 02:59 PM   #84
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Default Re: HBO orders alternate universe Civil War drama from David Benioff & Dan Weiss

If you don't like the concept or have seen enough art about slavery, don't watch this show. It's really that simple. I think it's an interesting concept and I'm willing to give it a shot.

As for the concept being unrealistic.. it's a television show. It happened, slavery is still there, those are the rules the creators are putting down.

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