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View Poll Results: Who is the best Boxer of all time?
Mike Tyson 2 5.00%
Muhammad Ali 15 37.50%
Sugar Ray Robinson 5 12.50%
Floyd Mayweather 3 7.50%
Manny Pacquiao 2 5.00%
Jack Dempsey 0 0%
Joe Louis 1 2.50%
Larry Holmes 0 0%
Shane Mosley 0 0%
Lennox Lewis 0 0%
Joe Frazier 0 0%
George Foreman 0 0%
Sonny Liston 0 0%
Rocky Marciano 6 15.00%
Evander Holyfield 1 2.50%
Nikolai Valuev 0 0%
Oscar De La Hoya 0 0%
Roy Jones Jr 1 2.50%
Sugar Ray Leonard 1 2.50%
Other 3 7.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-12-2017, 12:52 PM   #351
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Default Re: The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 5

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Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
Apparently the WBC is looking into creating a Super Heavyweight division for fighters who come in over 250lbs. The argument from them is it's potentially fatal if we have boxer who comes in at 220 vs a boxer coming in at 260 in a heavyweight fight. They will start research on it and decide if its' feasible within a year.
Tell that to Buster Mathis after he fought Joe Frazier. Yeah.....it's potentially fatal.....Joe almost killed him. Mathis, BTW, outpointed Joe as an amateur, was very quick on his feet and had very fast hands. He also outweighed Frazier by about 40 pounds. A good 220 pound fighter isn't, IMO, at a disadvantage because of weight. There are disadvantages to being 280 or so.

BTW, I finally got around to watching Canelo v GGG. I can understand why someone would think either should have won, but I don't think anyone has anything to complain about either way.

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Old 10-12-2017, 04:38 PM   #352
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Default Re: The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 5

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Tell that to Buster Mathis after he fought Joe Frazier. Yeah.....it's potentially fatal.....Joe almost killed him. Mathis, BTW, outpointed Joe as an amateur, was very quick on his feet and had very fast hands. He also outweighed Frazier by about 40 pounds. A good 220 pound fighter isn't, IMO, at a disadvantage because of weight. There are disadvantages to being 280 or so.

BTW, I finally got around to watching Canelo v GGG. I can understand why someone would think either should have won, but I don't think anyone has anything to complain about either way.
That's all we was saying. Could have went either way, wouldn't be upset but I felt like Canelo beat GGG.

And about the SHW division, it does make sense. Wilder started out at 218, imagine him at that weight going up against AJ or Vladimir. Middleweight is 160 and people were complaining about Floyd fighting GGG, going up 13 lbs. Haye fighting AJ seems to be much worse.

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Old 10-12-2017, 04:49 PM   #353
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Default Re: The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 5

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That's all we was saying. Could have went either way, wouldn't be upset but I felt like Canelo beat GGG.

And about the SHW division, it does make sense. Wilder started out at 218, imagine him at that weight going up against AJ or Vladimir. Middleweight is 160 and people were complaining about Floyd fighting GGG, going up 13 lbs. Haye fighting AJ seems to be much worse.
WRT SHW, it's not the same as stepping up 13 to 28 lbs (going from Welter to Middle or Light Heavy. I think people sort of max out when they get over 200+. A solid 220 isn't at that great of a disadvantage against a guy going 250 (Unless you are a TREMENDOUS 250 like the Klitschkos are). I could see a heavyweight like a Joe Frazier (who weighed in at 204 in his prime) knocking the living $#!t out of a very good fighter who goes 250 (he did it).

I'm not saying there are no advantages to being bigger, but I don't think it's as pronounced when you get into the 200+ range. Plus, how many really good fighters are you going to find at 250+? Carrying around the extra weight is also a bit of a burden. There are diminishing returns on extra weight IMO, but I'm sort of an old school traditionalist and think the Super/Jr classifications were established for one reason only.....money.

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Old 10-12-2017, 05:56 PM   #354
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Default Re: The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 5

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WRT SHW, it's not the same as stepping up 13 to 28 lbs (going from Welter to Middle or Light Heavy. I think people sort of max out when they get over 200+. A solid 220 isn't at that great of a disadvantage against a guy going 250 (Unless you are a TREMENDOUS 250 like the Klitschkos are). I could see a heavyweight like a Joe Frazier (who weighed in at 204 in his prime) knocking the living $#!t out of a very good fighter who goes 250 (he did it).

I'm not saying there are no advantages to being bigger, but I don't think it's as pronounced when you get into the 200+ range. Plus, how many really good fighters are you going to find at 250+? Carrying around the extra weight is also a bit of a burden. There are diminishing returns on extra weight IMO, but I'm sort of an old school traditionalist and think the Super/Jr classifications were established for one reason only.....money.
IDK man. The reason Doentay has advantages is because of his reach. Put him in there with someone his height, like an AJ and the weight thing shows up huge. Wilder has been wobbled before(would't be shocked even Stiverne wins honestly)but I do think it does make a difference even at that weight and size. That's like Kobe fighting Dwight Howard. Sure they are big but look at the muscle difference.

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Old 10-13-2017, 10:53 AM   #355
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Default Re: The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 5

Wilder was knocked down and supposedly hurt at the end of 2nd round against Harold Sconiers. A fight I've never seen video of. But I've seen a few photos.

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Old 10-13-2017, 05:20 PM   #356
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Default Re: The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 5

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IDK man. The reason Doentay has advantages is because of his reach. Put him in there with someone his height, like an AJ and the weight thing shows up huge. Wilder has been wobbled before(would't be shocked even Stiverne wins honestly)but I do think it does make a difference even at that weight and size. That's like Kobe fighting Dwight Howard. Sure they are big but look at the muscle difference.
LOL. You could be right. I went from feather to light and that 9 lbs was a big deal. I wouldn't really know for sure because it would take two of me (when I was younger and in shape) to make one of them. Maybe I have that attitude because there just haven't even that many really good 250+ fighters, it maybe there's a reason for that. I'll tell you that I saw Frazier in his prime at 204 and think he'd destroy most of the 250+ guys I've seen. Of course he wasn't your average heavyweight. I still think this is probably more about money than anything else.

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Old 10-13-2017, 06:28 PM   #357
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Default Re: The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 5

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LOL. You could be right. I went from feather to light and that 9 lbs was a big deal. I wouldn't really know for sure because it would take two of me (when I was younger and in shape) to make one of them. Maybe I have that attitude because there just haven't even that many really good 250+ fighters, it maybe there's a reason for that. I'll tell you that I saw Frazier in his prime at 204 and think he'd destroy most of the 250+ guys I've seen. Of course he wasn't your average heavyweight. I still think this is probably more about money than anything else.

It's something in the food that makes people big as they are now. If you put Frazier and Ali in today's ring at heavyweight, they would look small. Those guys had more skill but athletes today are just bigger, stronger and faster. Can you imagine the Klit's or AJ or even Wilder in the ring with those guys? The size advantage would be crazy! I said all that to say that a super HW division has it's good and bad.

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Old 10-16-2017, 05:38 PM   #358
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Default Re: The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 5

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It's something in the food that makes people big as they are now. If you put Frazier and Ali in today's ring at heavyweight, they would look small. Those guys had more skill but athletes today are just bigger, stronger and faster. Can you imagine the Klit's or AJ or even Wilder in the ring with those guys? The size advantage would be crazy! I said all that to say that a super HW division has it's good and bad.
The Klitschko's are very good fighters, but I don't know how they'd fare with someone who pushed them hard for 12 rounds. The rest I haven't watched enough to have an informed opinion, but these big guys seem to wear down pretty easily. It's not easy carrying that much weight around. I would put Joe and Muhammad in against just about anyone I've seen recently without a whole lot of worries. Joe would wear down just about any heavyweight and Ali would pick them apart. Joe could get caught with a big punch, but after about 5 or 6, he'd be knocking the crap out of them.

BTW - You'll see what I mean about Frazier if you ever watch the 1st Ali/Frazier fight. Joe was at his absolute peak and the pace he put up for 15 rounds would have withered any other heavyweight I've ever seen. The only guy who would have stood a chance against him (barring a big punch) was in the ring with him. He wasn't ever really quite the same after that effort and pushed himself so hard that he ended up in the hospital.

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Last edited by InCali; 10-17-2017 at 11:05 AM.
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