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Old 09-17-2017, 04:41 PM   #26
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Default Re: Why Season 3 Should Not Be... SPOILERS

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I have no memory of that one.
Season One in Stick's episode. At the end Stick reports to a guy who had a bunch of scars on his back who asks "Will Murdock be ready?" and Stick Replies "I don't know"

That was a recreation of a panel teasing comic character named Stone (Stick and Stone, get it?) but we haven't seen any of him since and with Stick stating all of the chaste are dead we are left to assume he died off screen.

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Old 09-17-2017, 07:03 PM   #27
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Default Re: Why Season 3 Should Not Be... SPOILERS

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Season One in Stick's episode. At the end Stick reports to a guy who had a bunch of scars on his back who asks "Will Murdock be ready?" and Stick Replies "I don't know"

That was a recreation of a panel teasing comic character named Stone (Stick and Stone, get it?) but we haven't seen any of him since and with Stick stating all of the chaste are dead we are left to assume he died off screen.
I was wondering if he appeared in that episode. Thanks.

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Old 09-18-2017, 12:57 AM   #28
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Default Re: Why Season 3 Should Not Be... SPOILERS

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I have no memory of that one.
I can understand why. It was a short little scene, and again, it was never revisited or referenced again afterward. For starters, it seemed that Stick probably answered to that mysterious person, who turned out to be Stone in the comics, but he never had a name in that episode or after.

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Old 10-12-2017, 03:11 AM   #29
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Default Re: Why Season 3 Should Not Be... SPOILERS

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I can understand why. It was a short little scene, and again, it was never revisited or referenced again afterward. For starters, it seemed that Stick probably answered to that mysterious person, who turned out to be Stone in the comics, but he never had a name in that episode or after.
They probably would've expanded more on that guy had Daredevil not gotten a second season so unexpectedly.

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Old 10-12-2017, 03:56 AM   #30
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Default Re: Why Season 3 Should Not Be... SPOILERS

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They probably would've expanded more on that guy had Daredevil not gotten a second season so unexpectedly.
I'm not sure why that'd be the case. The show was a breakout hit yeah, but I'm sure they wanted to tell more stories and continue the shows if at all possible.

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Old 10-14-2017, 04:16 PM   #31
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I know a lot of people are going nuts over the end the first season of The Defenders and talking about how it means we are going to see Born Again. But I'm not so sure.

I think it's just another lift from the comics so to speak, and they won't be solely adapting Born Again for next season. Plus, I just don't think the series is in a good place to go that route.

In Born Again, Matt's life falls apart systematically due to the machinations of the Kingpin. And what's it triggered by? It's triggered by Karen Page selling off Matt's secret identity in exchange for a drug fix. Karen is not in that place right now. Quite frankly, the way Karen has been built in the show, I doubt we ever see her go to that place. Not to mention, Born Again is just as much as about Karen hitting rock bottom and rebuilding herself as well.

I think we might see a few lifts and elements from Born Again like we saw at the end of Defenders, but I don't think that means it's time to do that adaptation of the story.

Matt's already lost quite a bit. He no longer has a law office. He has no legal partner. Foggy is on his own and working with a giant law firm now. He and Karen were still apart as of Defenders. It doesn't make much sense to put him through the wringer like that at this point in time. In order to do the Born Again storyline, Matt should be rebuilt more.

Plus, we still haven't even gotten a Bullseye story yet.
And the thing about Karen and selling out Matt's identity that becomes a problem to adapt is that Deborah Ann Woll's Karen is a completely different character from her comics counterpart. The Karen we have in the MCU isn't the kind of character who could be blackmailed by Fisk. It would take something incredibly big for her to do anything for Fisk.

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Old 10-14-2017, 04:19 PM   #32
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Anyone that expects Born Again to play out like in the comics need to realize that it won't happen. They will do what they did with everything else and adapt it and make it their own. So yes, I see Season 3 being a loose adaption of Born Again, in terms of theme and the general idea of it.
Say that about any comics storyline. The themes of Born Again, that I can live with. Even some of the individual story elements could be used. But there's so many major deviations that Earth-616's "Born Again" will never be translated page by page to the screen.

IIRC, "The Man Without Fear" was one of a few story arcs that were used to inspire the creation of season 1, as well as a bit of Matt's background with Elektra in season 2.

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Old 10-14-2017, 07:13 PM   #33
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Default Re: Why Season 3 Should Not Be... SPOILERS

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And the thing about Karen and selling out Matt's identity that becomes a problem to adapt is that Deborah Ann Woll's Karen is a completely different character from her comics counterpart. The Karen we have in the MCU isn't the kind of character who could be blackmailed by Fisk. It would take something incredibly big for her to do anything for Fisk.
She wasn't blackmailed into doing anything in Born Again. She never did anything with Fisk. She sold off Daredevil's identity to a random drug dealer just to get a drug fix because her addiction was that bad.

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Old 10-28-2017, 12:28 AM   #34
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She wasn't blackmailed into doing anything in Born Again. She never did anything with Fisk. She sold off Daredevil's identity to a random drug dealer just to get a drug fix because her addiction was that bad.
That's also a product of Frank Miller's misogynistic mind. Seriously, Frank Miller's writing is very misogynistic.

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Old 10-28-2017, 01:33 AM   #35
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Default Re: Why Season 3 Should Not Be... SPOILERS

Why is that misogynistic? To show someone hit rock bottom and make a terrible mistake?

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Old 10-28-2017, 12:01 PM   #36
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Default Re: Why Season 3 Should Not Be... SPOILERS

I think it would be a misunderstanding of Miller's Daredevil work, likely colored by his later work, to say that it is just misogyny. I wouldn't call it a feminist piece of work by any stretch of the imagination, but it's far more textured than that.

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Old 10-28-2017, 01:47 PM   #37
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Default Re: Why Season 3 Should Not Be... SPOILERS

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I think it would be a misunderstanding of Miller's Daredevil work, likely colored by his later work, to say that it is just misogyny. I wouldn't call it a feminist piece of work by any stretch of the imagination, but it's far more textured than that.
I agree. I'm not a huge fan of some of his later work by any means, but to trash the story by simply calling it all misogynist IMHO is a disservice to what was so great about it.

Umm, the guy created Elektra.

The way I see it, Karen at the time was in a really bad place. She made a horrible mistake, but she wasn't intentionally trying to hurt Matt. She was really only hurting herself. She eventually went back to Matt and he forgave her. He didn't blame her for what she did. And he helped her get clean.

The idea that a woman could become a drug addict and make a terrible mistake, IMHO that's not misogyny. That's the human condition. It's human nature at play.

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Old 10-28-2017, 06:24 PM   #38
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I agree. I'm not a huge fan of some of his later work by any means, but to trash the story by simply calling it all misogynist IMHO is a disservice to what was so great about it.

Umm, the guy created Elektra.

The way I see it, Karen at the time was in a really bad place. She made a horrible mistake, but she wasn't intentionally trying to hurt Matt. She was really only hurting herself. She eventually went back to Matt and he forgave her. He didn't blame her for what she did. And he helped her get clean.

The idea that a woman could become a drug addict and make a terrible mistake, IMHO that's not misogyny. That's the human condition. It's human nature at play.
Well, okay, in the broad scheme of things, a lot of Frank Miller's comic runs have included sexualized violence and writing that came off to me as misogynistic.

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Old 10-29-2017, 01:06 AM   #39
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I can't see it. We've seen the kind of person Karen is, and I can't see her betraying her friends, no matter what happened to her life. I mean, she could probably be tortured or brainwashed into revealing secrets, but one, that would be a *terrible* story, and two, anybody who knows enough to go to *those* lengths, already knows enough that its kind of irrelevant.
Yeah, Karen is not a blackmailable character. Foggy on the other hand, he's very insecure and he's also got a little less self-confidence. So he might be pressured if someone were to threaten Marci...


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Old 10-29-2017, 01:29 PM   #40
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Well, okay, in the broad scheme of things, a lot of Frank Miller's comic runs have included sexualized violence and writing that came off to me as misogynistic.
I'm not going to defend some of his later work. But Born Again is recognized as a great comic for a reason.

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